time frame on 1900MHz refarming?

Thanks for the extremely detailed replies J-Hop2o6 and Viper Matrix Wireless. I think I mostly understood everything.

A couple points for clarification:

1) When I was asking if coverage for 1900 Mhz HSPA+ would be just as good as AWS, when the refarm is done, I meant in terms of geographical area covered (numbers of towers, I suppose?), not technically how good is the building penetration (although that's a nice plus to know about). Will I get coverage in all the same places that I might go with my AWS phone right now, with a phone that does HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz?

2) Is there a way if I can tell right now if I'm getting HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz, without have a 1900 Mhz HSPA+ phone (I have a Nexus One)?

3) Viper when you say that it would be best to get a phone that has the 850/1900 bands, are you saying that this will be preferable to a phone with AWS HSPA+? That is, if it's a choice between one or the other, since there are very few phones that have both.

4) Eventually will this mean that AT&T phones are completely compatible with T-Mobile's network both on HSPA+ and LTE (using AWS)? They would work just as well as a T-Mobile phone?

Thanks again for all the details and explanation above.

Thanks for the extremely detailed replies J-Hop2o6 and Viper Matrix Wireless. I think I mostly understood everything.

A couple points for clarification:

1) When I was asking if coverage for 1900 Mhz HSPA+ would be just as good as AWS, when the refarm is done, I meant in terms of geographical area covered (numbers of towers, I suppose?), not technically how good is the building penetration (although that's a nice plus to know about). Will I get coverage in all the same places that I might go with my AWS phone right now, with a phone that does HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz?

2) Is there a way if I can tell right now if I'm getting HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz, without have a 1900 Mhz HSPA+ phone (I have a Nexus One)?

3) Viper when you say that it would be best to get a phone that has the 850/1900 bands, are you saying that this will be preferable to a phone with AWS HSPA+? That is, if it's a choice between one or the other, since there are very few phones that have both.

4) Eventually will this mean that AT&T phones are completely compatible with T-Mobile's network both on HSPA+ and LTE (using AWS)? They would work just as well as a T-Mobile phone?

Thanks again for all the details and explanation above.

There will be more towers to provide coverage on 1900 than AWS 1700. I wasn't trying to speak about building penetration. I was comparing on the coverage you get over GSM 1900 today is comparable to what you'd receive over HSPA+ 1900.

Depends on the Nexus One version you own and if the software supports switching over to WCDMA 1900 or Band II. Looks for the Nexus One your either or have 1900 or just 1700. If you have AWS HSPA+ then you won't have PCS HSPA+.

850 will be featured in newer phones and this is just for AT&T roaming. Phones after the Sensation support 1900 HSPA+. It is better to have both AWS HSPA+ & 1900 HSPA+ than to have just one but 1900 HSPA+ would serve better. Phones on T-Mobile will support both.

AT&T phones in the future will support LTE on AWS LTE but AWS HSPA+ on T-Mobile will eventually be moved completely on PCS HSPA+ completely. Making AWS HSPA+ convert over to AWS LTE completely. But AT&T hasn't made a HSPA+ 42 phone just up to 21. Since AT&T really only has 14.4 deployed mostly. It would discontinue AWS HSPA+. AT&T doesn't have plans so far to have HSPA on AWS. 1 of the phones I pointed out is a first for AT&T LTE Roaming on T-Mobile. So 700 Band 17 could be seen in more phones as well.









 

Thanks for the extremely detailed replies J-Hop2o6 and Viper Matrix Wireless. I think I mostly understood everything.

A couple points for clarification:

1) When I was asking if coverage for 1900 Mhz HSPA+ would be just as good as AWS, when the refarm is done, I meant in terms of geographical area covered (numbers of towers, I suppose?), not technically how good is the building penetration (although that's a nice plus to know about). Will I get coverage in all the same places that I might go with my AWS phone right now, with a phone that does HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz?

2) Is there a way if I can tell right now if I'm getting HSPA+ on 1900 Mhz, without have a 1900 Mhz HSPA+ phone (I have a Nexus One)?

3) Viper when you say that it would be best to get a phone that has the 850/1900 bands, are you saying that this will be preferable to a phone with AWS HSPA+? That is, if it's a choice between one or the other, since there are very few phones that have both.

4) Eventually will this mean that AT&T phones are completely compatible with T-Mobile's network both on HSPA+ and LTE (using AWS)? They would work just as well as a T-Mobile phone?

Thanks again for all the details and explanation above.

1.) You can guarantee that. But remember, Tmo has to go to each site/tower and "upgrade/refarm" it. So you just gotta have patience for your area to have comparable AWS HSPA+ coverage. But where ever you have AWS HSPA+, you will have 1900 HSPA+. Its just a matter of when/how long. And i'm sure Tmo will eventually fully convert HSPA+ over 1900 from AWS and shut down 2G/EDGE. So 1900 will be exclusivity HSPA+ and LTE will be exclusively AWS. Should start atleast 2014-15

2.) It might be tricky. I believe Samsung Android phones with TouchWiz has a deep menu where you can select which bands to test. I'm able to do it on my Galaxy Nexus but its not the prettiest way. PM me if you want more info to test it out. But a much easier way I recommend is buy a cheap unlocked iPhone 3G/3GS and put in your Tmo sim card and start testing. Should find some around $50 unlocked.

4.) More phones these days has support for both AT&T and Tmo. And looks like AT&T LTE phones will always be atleast dual-band (700 / 1700) which will work with Tmo's 1700 spectrum. And since Tmo is converting to 1900 HSPA+, Tmo is covered on that end automatically. Just gotta give them time to "upgrade/refarm" all those AWS HSPA+ towers (and EDGE only towers maybe).

A little bit of a delayed response, but thanks Viper Matrix Wireless and J-Hop2o6 for the further detailed explanations. It's very helpful.

I just remembered that my old Nokia N86 (from the days when I didn't care if I had 3G coverage) has 1900 HSDPA. So I'll have to dig that up and start testing my coverage on 1900 Mhz.

Just wait till December and there should be an announcement of the refarmed areas.

Yeah, I guess I'm getting impatient.

One other question. How will this work if I have a phone with both 1700 and 1900 HSPA+? Like the new Nexus 4? Which frequency will the phone default to? It sounds like if both are available in an area, it would be preferable to have it connect to 1900 Mhz, since that has better building penetration.

I'm already in an area where the 3G signal is weak, so my phone at home will tend to switch back and forth between 2G and 3G (and drop calls in the process). I finally realized I was better off locking the phone to 3G. But I'm wondering if something like the Nexus 4 would start switching between 1700 and 1900 Mhz in the same way. And then would there be a way to lock it onto one frequency?

Thanks for any thoughts.

I'm having an odd experience with the refarmed 3G. I have an old Nokia N86 that does 1900 Mhz UMTS, which I'm using to test for the refarm in my area (it's not officially up yet, but there are lots of reports of people getting it).

Where I am at the moment I get UMTS, but only four bars (out of seven). But without moving the phone at all (sitting on a table), if I set it to GSM I get the full seven bars. Why should it be different? Aren't they both using the 1900 Mhz?

Set to UMTS the connection to the network fades in and out too. If I pick up the phone from the table it's sitting on, I lose the connection altogether. But if I'm holding the phone while set to GSM, it stays at a solid seven bars, no wavering.

Is this what the 1900 Mhz refarm service is going to be like? I thought it was supposed to have just as good reception as Edge, since it's on the same frequency. Or is this just a sign of a tower that's still being worked on?

Thanks for any ideas.

If your city is not fully announced yet, then don't worry about its current issues right now. It can be anything causing that weird issue. Where do you live again?

Okay, I'll just wait and see until after the official announcement. Thanks for the reply.

Same issue is going on here as well. On the 13th I discovered that 3G popped up on an iPhone 3GS on Simple Mobile and then I saw an unlocked AT&T Android also pop up on 3G. Then on an iPhone 5. But it kept flip flopping back and forth because the signal was horrible. Theres been network issues as of late however on these devices.

You know what's weird Viper. Seattle and its surrounding cities got HSPA+ over 1900 a couple of weeks ago, but its still possible to drop down to 2G/EDGE. My friends iPhone 4S was doing that sometimes. So is the 1900 HSPA+ running at lower power compared to 1900 2G? What's your take on it?

I don't think T-Mobile is doing a good job with the modernization. I agree that they are using less power for WCDMA. They always do and its probably way less power than AWS at least for now. Eventually they will come back and turn up the power.

This is probably an impossible question to answer, but do you have any guess on a time frame for when they might turn up the power for WCDMA? Six months? A year? Who knows maybe never?

I was thinking of taking advantage of the refarm to get a phone that only has PCS and not AWS.

This is probably an impossible question to answer, but do you have any guess on a time frame for when they might turn up the power for WCDMA? Six months? A year? Who knows maybe never?

I was thinking of taking advantage of the refarm to get a phone that only has PCS and not AWS.

It'll be more smart to have a phone that has both AWS and PCS HSPA+. I have a feeling Tmo wont turn up the power anytime soon. I guess wait for LTE over AWS sometime in 2013.

Its usually on a yearly basis. But sometimes they will make special trips within 1 to 2 quarter periods to turn up the power and do tuning maintenance on towers and upgrade more towers in that market to fill in gaps but that depends on how big they are in that market. You can go ahead and buy one with both.

Thanks for the responses and explanation of how they do this type of maintenance.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not in love with my options that have both PCS and AWS. I was considering the Nexus 4, but it has a few elements I'm feeling like I don't want to deal with (the limited internal storage and glass back, also to a lesser extent the mediocre camera).

So the One X+ was seeming like a better alternative to me.

I'm surprised that they would not be rolling out PCS at a higher power. I thought the whole point was to get iPhone users? If people are only getting mediocre 3G reception it doesn't seem like it's going to be very effective at luring these customers.

Thanks for the responses and explanation of how they do this type of maintenance.

Yeah, I guess I'm just not in love with my options that have both PCS and AWS. I was considering the Nexus 4, but it has a few elements I'm feeling like I don't want to deal with (the limited internal storage and glass back, also to a lesser extent the mediocre camera).

So the One X+ was seeming like a better alternative to me.

I'm surprised that they would not be rolling out PCS at a higher power. I thought the whole point was to get iPhone users? If people are only getting mediocre 3G reception it doesn't seem like it's going to be very effective at luring these customers.

I'm not sure why its like that right now. I'm not sure if that's WCDMA/3G fault or if Tmo has the power lower for whatever reason. Hopefully that can be addressed in the near time.

As for AWS+PCS HSPA+ get either the GS3 or Note 2 since the N4 rubs you the wrong way. And i'm not sure if AT&T's HOX+ supports AWS HSPA+ also.

Thanks for the further thoughts.

Yeah, I really don't like Samsung phones. I never have. I don't want a huge phone like the Note 2 and for various reasons the GS3 does not appeal to me either. I'd get the Nexus 4, before either of those phones.

The north american One X+ supports LTE AWS, but not HSPA+ AWS.

Anyway, perhaps I'll just take my chances and if the network experience with PCS 3G is a big step backwards, I'll just sell the phone and do something else. As always, network experiences can be highly idiosyncratic, depending on where you happen to go the most in your day to day life. And I probably won't know if the refarmed PCS is good enough, until I try it.

From my understanding the reason is like why others were like the same at first when they rolled a type of 3G network may it be CDMA type EVDO or GSM type UMTS/WCDMA. When they first roll it out they seem to want to roll it out at the lowest and keep tuning it up year by year. Maybe the FCC has some kind of requirement or its like a game to them. But I know they will probably come back and turn it up, add to towers and say its been upgraded. I have the GN2 and its a good phone except don't drop it LOL.